WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:05.040 Remember those seven boxes of my mum's? The ones from the carrier bag? 00:05.600 --> 00:07.100 Irina's, I remember. 00:07.780 --> 00:14.320 Well, a week later I went through them again, and one blister pack, nearly full. 00:15.040 --> 00:19.780 A medicine she'd been given a month ago, one she's meant to take every day. 00:20.620 --> 00:25.900 And out of the strip, three tablets, out of thirty. 00:26.700 --> 00:28.180 So she wasn't taking it? 00:28.180 --> 00:33.560 She wasn't. And here's the strange part. It's not that she forgot. 00:34.460 --> 00:37.100 I asked her straight out. She said, 00:37.340 --> 00:41.180 That tablet doesn't agree with me, so I just gave it a miss. 00:43.400 --> 00:48.180 Hello. I'm Tomasz Szuster. I built the mojApteczka app. 00:49.060 --> 00:52.960 And what Ita has just described is what today's whole episode is about. 00:53.720 --> 00:57.840 Not, I forgot to take my medicine. We did that one last time. 00:58.180 --> 01:05.560 Today's harder. Why people knowingly don't take their medicines the way the GP prescribed. 01:06.440 --> 01:12.080 Knowingly? So someone actually sits down and decides not to take it? 01:12.080 --> 01:19.660 Very often, yes. There's a distinction. You can miss a dose because it slipped your mind. That's one thing. 01:20.340 --> 01:23.720 Or you can miss it because you decided to. 01:24.600 --> 01:26.380 Tuck the blister pack away in a drawer. 01:27.300 --> 01:30.220 And that second kind is far more common than you'd think. 01:30.220 --> 01:33.340 How common is more common? 01:33.900 --> 01:36.920 The World Health Organization put a number on it years ago. 01:37.600 --> 01:44.400 With long-term conditions, in countries like ours, roughly half of patients don't take their medicines as prescribed. 01:45.360 --> 01:45.760 Half. 01:46.320 --> 01:50.820 Half. That rather sounds like the whole system's broken, doesn't it? 01:50.820 --> 01:54.640 And here's the catch that surprised me when I was building the app. 01:55.600 --> 01:57.840 At the start, I thought it was a memory problem. 01:58.380 --> 02:00.000 That a good reminder would sort it. 02:00.660 --> 02:01.660 Phone goes off at eight. 02:01.880 --> 02:02.700 You take your tablet. 02:03.160 --> 02:03.640 Job done. 02:04.200 --> 02:05.500 And it doesn't? 02:05.980 --> 02:06.640 It doesn't. 02:07.160 --> 02:09.760 Because a reminder only fixes that one reason. 02:10.200 --> 02:10.880 That you forgot. 02:10.880 --> 02:17.160 And as it turns out, people don't take their medicines for at least five completely different reasons. 02:18.100 --> 02:20.160 And an alarm clock helps with none of them. 02:20.340 --> 02:21.020 Go on then. 02:21.360 --> 02:22.320 Name the five. 02:22.960 --> 02:24.960 Because so far, I know one. 02:25.560 --> 02:26.000 Mums. 02:26.920 --> 02:28.860 It makes me feel poorly. 02:29.400 --> 02:31.680 That's the first, and probably the most common. 02:32.300 --> 02:33.740 Fear of side effects. 02:34.720 --> 02:36.920 Someone takes a medicine, feels a bit off, 02:36.920 --> 02:40.740 or even just reads the leaflet and gets frightened by that long list. 02:41.300 --> 02:42.420 And quietly stops. 02:43.120 --> 02:44.160 Without telling anyone. 02:44.840 --> 02:46.020 Quietly is right. 02:46.780 --> 02:47.820 Mum didn't tell me. 02:48.460 --> 02:50.380 I worked it out from the blister pack. 02:50.740 --> 02:52.080 And let me be clear straight away. 02:52.620 --> 02:55.660 I can't tell you whether that medicine is safe or not. 02:56.300 --> 02:58.240 The app doesn't know, and neither do I. 02:58.800 --> 03:00.780 That's for the GP or the pharmacist. 03:01.400 --> 03:02.780 The app does one thing. 03:03.100 --> 03:06.800 It keeps a list of what Mum takes and what she won't touch. 03:07.360 --> 03:10.160 So you've got something to ask about, instead of guessing. 03:10.160 --> 03:18.000 So not stop it or keep taking it, more you've got a reason to ring the GP. 03:18.700 --> 03:19.100 Exactly. 03:19.880 --> 03:22.480 A quiet decision turns into a conversation. 03:23.280 --> 03:23.660 Right. 03:24.340 --> 03:25.280 Reason two. 03:25.840 --> 03:26.120 Money. 03:26.120 --> 03:30.660 That's the reason nobody says out loud, because there's a bit of shame in it. 03:31.440 --> 03:32.560 A medicine's expensive. 03:33.240 --> 03:34.940 A pensioner's counting every penny. 03:35.480 --> 03:40.960 So they take it every other day, or split the tablet in half, to make it last. 03:40.960 --> 03:44.400 My mum did exactly that with one of hers. 03:45.280 --> 03:48.180 Why buy it every month when I can stretch it out? 03:48.520 --> 03:51.360 And again, the app won't make a medicine any cheaper. 03:51.900 --> 03:53.140 That I can't do. 03:53.140 --> 03:55.240 But it can do one thing. 03:55.880 --> 03:57.540 It shows the active ingredient. 03:58.200 --> 04:03.260 And sometimes the same ingredient comes in a cheaper box, under a different name. 04:04.320 --> 04:05.320 One thing, though. 04:05.920 --> 04:11.960 Whether a swap is right in any given case, that's for the pharmacist at the counter, or the GP, to say. 04:11.960 --> 04:15.360 The app doesn't suggest a substitute in their place. 04:15.900 --> 04:19.680 It just gives you a starting point for that chat at the pharmacy. 04:20.360 --> 04:23.860 So it shows you what to ask, not what to buy. 04:24.200 --> 04:25.080 What to ask. 04:25.680 --> 04:28.500 The choice stays with the pharmacist or the GP. 04:29.460 --> 04:29.860 Third. 04:30.020 --> 04:32.360 I feel fine, so why should I take it? 04:33.000 --> 04:35.700 That one's lethal, especially with high blood pressure. 04:36.400 --> 04:38.980 Because high blood pressure usually doesn't hurt. 04:39.500 --> 04:40.500 You don't feel a thing. 04:40.500 --> 04:44.680 So your head tells you, if I can't feel anything, I must be well. 04:45.200 --> 04:45.880 I'll skip it. 04:46.600 --> 04:48.200 That one I actually understand. 04:48.980 --> 04:50.000 I'd think the same. 04:50.520 --> 04:52.520 It doesn't hurt, so why bother? 04:53.400 --> 04:56.140 And honestly, there's no app that can fix that one. 04:57.300 --> 05:03.060 What you're taking a medicine for, that's for the GP to explain, in the surgery, when they prescribe it. 05:03.540 --> 05:07.060 The only thing I can do in the app is give you a place for a note. 05:07.480 --> 05:09.860 What it's for, who prescribed it. 05:10.500 --> 05:14.760 So that three months on, it's not, that pink one, what's that for again? 05:14.760 --> 05:20.680 So something of that conversation with the GP survives, not just the box? 05:21.460 --> 05:24.820 Yes, because the box doesn't remember why you bought it. 05:26.040 --> 05:26.520 Fourth. 05:26.520 --> 05:28.920 This one's the quietest of all. 05:28.920 --> 05:31.340 Shame and low mood. 05:31.340 --> 05:39.020 Sometimes a person doesn't take their medicines because they feel so low, they simply can't be bothered to look after themselves anymore. 05:39.020 --> 05:44.840 And sometimes they're ashamed of the medicine itself, especially anything for mental health. 05:45.480 --> 05:47.360 There's nothing wrong with my head. 05:48.020 --> 05:49.440 That's a delicate one. 05:50.220 --> 05:50.500 Very. 05:50.500 --> 05:54.220 And that's why one thing is an iron rule for me. 05:55.000 --> 05:57.000 The app never judges anyone. 05:57.680 --> 06:01.520 There's no red banner saying, you've missed it again, you've failed. 06:02.120 --> 06:03.120 There's a counter. 06:03.860 --> 06:04.800 Dry as anything. 06:05.560 --> 06:06.580 Two of four today. 06:07.480 --> 06:07.980 That's it. 06:08.540 --> 06:09.140 No commentary. 06:09.600 --> 06:10.200 No punishment. 06:10.760 --> 06:11.940 No sad face. 06:11.940 --> 06:13.600 I remember. 06:14.040 --> 06:16.060 You said that with Leon's antibiotic. 06:16.960 --> 06:18.520 Shame versus the counter. 06:19.420 --> 06:22.740 Because shame tells you to hide the blister pack and say nothing. 06:23.700 --> 06:25.340 A counter just shows the fact. 06:26.180 --> 06:28.320 And a fact is something you can take to the GP. 06:29.480 --> 06:31.040 Shame stays in the drawer. 06:32.240 --> 06:32.980 And the fifth. 06:33.120 --> 06:34.580 Simply too many medicines. 06:35.380 --> 06:36.820 Back to your Mun's seven boxes. 06:36.820 --> 06:42.560 When you've got seven packs in front of you, each at a different time, one before food, 06:42.780 --> 06:47.140 one after, one only at night, at some point you give up. 06:47.820 --> 06:50.580 You take the ones you remember and let the rest go. 06:51.280 --> 06:52.460 Not out of defiance. 06:53.000 --> 06:54.480 Out of sheer overload. 06:56.060 --> 06:56.780 That's true. 06:57.480 --> 06:58.740 Mum said it outright. 06:59.740 --> 07:03.700 I get lost in all this, so I take the important ones. 07:03.700 --> 07:07.660 Except she decided herself which ones were important. 07:08.740 --> 07:12.340 And that's not a call a patient should be making alone at the kitchen table. 07:13.140 --> 07:15.500 Which brings us back to the report for the GP. 07:16.420 --> 07:21.260 Because only when the GP sees the whole list at once can they judge. 07:21.900 --> 07:25.360 Whether something can be changed, simplified or stopped. 07:25.980 --> 07:27.200 That's their call. 07:27.840 --> 07:29.240 Not mums at the kitchen table. 07:29.780 --> 07:30.780 And not the apps. 07:31.240 --> 07:33.440 The app doesn't stop anything. 07:33.700 --> 07:38.720 It shows the whole picture, so there's something to talk about in the first place. 07:40.660 --> 07:42.340 You know what I like about all this? 07:43.180 --> 07:47.740 That every other minute you say, the app won't do that. 07:48.540 --> 07:49.440 Because it won't. 07:50.340 --> 07:55.040 Look, of those five reasons, the app honestly touches maybe one. 07:55.520 --> 07:56.600 The overload one. 07:56.900 --> 07:57.500 The chaos. 07:58.020 --> 08:00.620 Because it puts the list in order and reminds you. 08:00.620 --> 08:02.640 It won't soothe fear. 08:03.120 --> 08:04.600 It won't fix money troubles. 08:05.040 --> 08:07.220 It won't explain what a medicine's for. 08:07.580 --> 08:09.460 And it won't take the shame away. 08:09.460 --> 08:11.920 All of that belongs to people. 08:11.960 --> 08:13.080 The GP. 08:13.080 --> 08:14.520 The pharmacist. 08:14.520 --> 08:15.520 The family. 08:17.020 --> 08:19.020 Then what's the app for at all? 08:19.540 --> 08:21.800 If four out of five are beyond it? 08:22.600 --> 08:26.240 Because it does the one thing that ties all five together. 08:27.040 --> 08:31.960 It turns a quiet, I didn't take it, into a list you can see. 08:31.960 --> 08:35.800 And once something's visible, you can talk about it. 08:36.700 --> 08:40.580 A mum who hides the blister pack in a drawer is alone with that decision. 08:41.280 --> 08:45.620 A mum whose list is on the GP's desk isn't alone anymore. 08:45.620 --> 08:48.060 OK. 08:49.060 --> 08:51.060 That does sound honest. 08:52.460 --> 08:54.660 Every app pretends to solve everything. 08:55.480 --> 08:59.160 And you're saying outright what this one doesn't solve. 08:59.360 --> 09:04.480 Because if I told you the app would get your mum taking her medicines, I'd be lying to you. 09:05.420 --> 09:08.000 She'll start taking them when she understands what they're for, 09:08.640 --> 09:09.660 stops being frightened, 09:10.300 --> 09:11.640 and stops being ashamed. 09:11.640 --> 09:14.100 And that takes a person. 09:15.220 --> 09:17.400 The app just opens that conversation. 09:19.360 --> 09:25.140 By the way, some of what we've been talking about are actual features of the mojApteczka app. 09:25.920 --> 09:28.160 The list, the report for the GP, 09:28.900 --> 09:30.940 the active ingredient, the counter. 09:32.200 --> 09:35.940 The rest is that conversation they're only meant to make easier. 09:37.080 --> 09:39.980 Just so we're clear, this isn't an advert. 09:39.980 --> 09:42.420 For the record. 09:43.820 --> 09:44.460 You know what? 09:45.100 --> 09:46.560 Now I've got one for you. 09:47.340 --> 09:48.080 About Dad. 09:48.940 --> 09:50.040 About Christoph. 09:50.760 --> 09:51.460 Go on. 09:52.180 --> 09:53.940 Dad takes a blood pressure tablet. 09:54.840 --> 09:57.740 And for six months he'd been taking half the dose. 09:58.380 --> 09:59.420 Halved it himself. 09:59.960 --> 10:01.860 Because he felt fine. 10:02.620 --> 10:03.600 Nobody knew. 10:04.200 --> 10:05.240 I didn't know. 10:05.240 --> 10:07.760 And how did it come out? 10:08.300 --> 10:13.680 It only came out when I started putting his medicines into the app to make that list for the GP. 10:14.680 --> 10:15.500 I look. 10:15.900 --> 10:16.480 It says, 10:17.040 --> 10:18.240 One tablet in the morning. 10:18.880 --> 10:19.580 And he goes, 10:19.980 --> 10:20.700 Well, no. 10:20.920 --> 10:21.880 I take half. 10:22.680 --> 10:24.840 And only then did it come out. 10:25.400 --> 10:26.660 Not through a row. 10:27.180 --> 10:28.240 Through a list. 10:28.240 --> 10:30.740 And that's the whole point. 10:31.520 --> 10:32.700 Not to catch him out. 10:33.200 --> 10:34.320 Not to have a row about, 10:34.620 --> 10:35.780 Why aren't you taking it? 10:36.500 --> 10:37.720 Just to notice, 10:38.240 --> 10:39.360 while entering the medicines, 10:40.240 --> 10:43.540 that what Dad says doesn't match what the GP prescribed. 10:44.220 --> 10:45.800 And take that to the GP. 10:45.800 --> 10:47.820 Because maybe, 10:48.200 --> 10:49.280 after talking it through, 10:49.880 --> 10:51.420 the GP changes the prescription. 10:52.560 --> 10:53.580 Or maybe they say, 10:53.840 --> 10:55.560 he needs to go back to what was prescribed. 10:56.720 --> 10:59.400 That's not something we settle at the kitchen table. 11:00.740 --> 11:02.840 And not something the app settles. 11:03.380 --> 11:04.600 Not the app either. 11:05.400 --> 11:08.220 All it did was show there was something worth talking about. 11:09.180 --> 11:11.440 If you'd like to try the mojApteczka app, 11:11.880 --> 11:13.700 the app is free and works offline. 11:13.700 --> 11:16.620 You'll find the link in the episode description. 11:17.940 --> 11:19.780 And if this episode's been useful, 11:20.500 --> 11:23.480 do send it to someone who's wondering why their mum or dad 11:23.480 --> 11:25.640 won't take those tablets. 11:25.700 --> 11:26.960 One more thing before we go. 11:27.580 --> 11:30.860 This podcast is made with the help of artificial intelligence. 11:31.740 --> 11:33.140 I wrote the dialogue myself, 11:33.640 --> 11:36.000 but the voices you're hearing aren't ours. 11:36.600 --> 11:39.040 They're AI-generated, synthetic voices. 11:39.820 --> 11:40.900 We're telling you this, 11:41.000 --> 11:41.540 straight out, 11:41.720 --> 11:43.560 because we think it should be the standard, 11:43.700 --> 11:45.740 for any podcast made this way. 11:46.700 --> 11:48.600 Full details are in the show notes 11:48.600 --> 11:51.140 and in every episode description. 11:52.140 --> 11:53.380 Until next time. 11:54.500 --> 11:56.080 Until next time.